19:53:25 | --> k-fish (~karsten@p5086F1F6.dip.t-dialin.net) has joined #moregroupware |
19:53:25 | --- Notify: hondzik is online (card.openprojects.net). |
19:53:26 | -ChanServ- [#moregroupware] Welcome to the Moregroupware community... |
19:53:48 | <k-fish> | hi. hope i got the time about right :-) |
19:53:48 | <yoyo> | hi karsten |
19:54:15 | <hondzik> | hi |
19:54:29 | <hondzik> | yoyo: and there is also a lot of calendar related feature request... |
19:54:46 | <k-fish> | yoyo = christian?!? |
19:54:56 | <yoyo> | ja, der palm type |
19:55:14 | <k-fish> | yoyo: sorry, i read your mail, but didn't reply... |
19:55:24 | <yoyo> | no problem |
19:55:43 | <k-fish> | but the overall plan seems good :-) gradually enabling functionality is good. |
19:56:26 | --> brr (~brr@ti300710a080-0892.bb.online.no) has joined #Moregroupware |
19:56:26 | --- Notify: brr is online (card.openprojects.net). |
19:56:27 | <yoyo> | hondzik: i understand. seams a lot of work to do. |
19:56:33 | --- k-fish has changed the topic to: developer IRC session - k-fish is logging... |
19:56:51 | <hondzik> | yoyo: yeah |
19:57:15 | <hondzik> | k-fish: quite big cvs update today :) |
19:57:37 | <k-fish> | yup :-) hope it works for more people than just me. |
19:58:02 | <hondzik> | I will try it after this chat... |
19:58:14 | <hondzik> | what topics want we discuss? |
19:58:44 | <hondzik> | future of 0.7? |
19:58:46 | <k-fish> | who will be there? |
19:58:52 | <k-fish> | is Loge about to show up? |
19:59:37 | <hondzik> | probably not :( it seems that only stunti, you, me and yoyo... |
20:00:21 | <k-fish> | i have printouts of your mail, my mail and loges mail (about xml->db setup) with me. as well as some other points. |
20:00:50 | <hondzik> | and Tomas Sanchez write me mail that he will join us too |
20:00:58 | <hondzik> | so where will we start? |
20:01:11 | <k-fish> | maybe you can tell me if you read my email (and the other mails) and we can walk through all the stuff step by step. |
20:01:38 | <k-fish> | i'd start with your mail, hondzik, it was rather short :-) |
20:01:47 | <k-fish> | who read it? |
20:01:59 | <hondzik> | I read yours :) |
20:02:09 | <k-fish> | ;) |
20:02:56 | <k-fish> | ok, developer roles, let's do that first. i will compile a table of the results... |
20:03:12 | <k-fish> | i will do notes, further work on todo. |
20:03:56 | <hondzik> | my coleague LI is logging too (if yours connection hangs) |
20:06:06 | <hondzik> | so who is still active? |
20:06:08 | <k-fish> | let's talk. are you already asleep? |
20:06:22 | <hondzik> | let's go on |
20:06:30 | <k-fish> | t.sanchez was very active with the files module. |
20:06:34 | <yoyo> | me is listening. i am not a dev. |
20:06:38 | <hondzik> | no, I have phone call from my mother :) |
20:07:14 | <k-fish> | maybe we can check it (the files module) and make him a developer on sf.net. he could then work on this independently. |
20:07:15 | <hondzik> | some laguage maintaners are active too, but I dont know which :( |
20:07:37 | <k-fish> | in theory the ones on the i18n page... |
20:07:38 | <hondzik> | I agree, there is a lot of request for files module |
20:07:58 | <hondzik> | yeah, theory... |
20:08:19 | * brr is the maintainer of the Norwegian translation. |
20:08:35 | <k-fish> | brr: you are working silenbtly, but effectively... |
20:08:44 | <hondzik> | brr: yeah, one of the most active |
20:09:00 | <k-fish> | but you didn't submit that many bugtracker items lately :-) |
20:09:54 | <hondzik> | we must stabilize our 0.6 tree asap, because I don't want to fix anything on the old cvs |
20:10:10 | <k-fish> | who did the tts module in 0.7 CVS? loge, stunti and lukas committed, but who is _maintaining_ it? |
20:10:22 | <k-fish> | let's talk about CVS trees later |
20:10:27 | <hondzik> | not me |
20:10:40 | <k-fish> | did you ever test it? |
20:11:00 | <k-fish> | it is another often requested functionality |
20:11:10 | <hondzik> | by definition.xml it was Olivier BREGERAS |
20:11:26 | * k-fish slaps his head (could have looked there...) |
20:11:43 | <k-fish> | ... i did cvs log :-) |
20:12:13 | --- stunti_away is now known as stunti |
20:12:22 | <k-fish> | so it seems as if there is no clear assigment for most modules. maybe we should just pick one after the other and work on it. |
20:12:36 | <hondzik> | right |
20:12:45 | <k-fish> | stunti: would you take care of the tts module in the future? |
20:13:31 | <stunti> | yes of course |
20:13:36 | <k-fish> | fine :-) |
20:13:38 | <stunti> | but it POO |
20:13:44 | <k-fish> | it what?!? |
20:13:51 | <stunti> | so I must rewrite it for the current tree |
20:14:11 | <stunti> | object |
20:14:23 | <k-fish> | hmmm... would it be too hard? |
20:14:29 | <stunti> | sorry (POO is in french :) ) |
20:14:51 | <stunti> | no but it will take lot of time |
20:15:20 | <k-fish> | wouldn't it suffice to wrap it (like the notes module, just the other way round)? |
20:15:38 | <stunti> | maybe yes |
20:15:41 | <k-fish> | otherwise, leave it as it is and let's see what way OO'ing takes... |
20:15:46 | <stunti> | I ll take a look at it |
20:15:53 | <k-fish> | good. any more on developer roles? |
20:16:00 | <k-fish> | who is doing what? |
20:16:53 | <hondzik> | I can take todos, contacs, settings and probably calendar |
20:17:08 | <hondzik> | but I don't wont them all :) |
20:17:26 | <k-fish> | i'll do todo (had a good start today :-) |
20:17:34 | <hondzik> | I know |
20:17:47 | <k-fish> | and maybe contacts, there are some itches to scratch for me personally... |
20:18:05 | <k-fish> | leaves you with calendar, that is important i think |
20:18:23 | <hondzik> | thank's a lot :) the easiest one |
20:18:38 | <hondzik> | but i need it in our company |
20:18:39 | <stunti> | I ll tak headline and tts |
20:18:54 | <k-fish> | speaking about important modules: did someone have closer look at the webmail module that emailtotom is working on? |
20:19:01 | <hondzik> | and I will take partprog |
20:19:18 | <hondzik> | not me |
20:19:53 | <k-fish> | i had some email conversation with him, i will check how he is doing. would be _very_good_ to have a working webmail again... |
20:20:14 | <stunti> | yes |
20:20:15 | <yoyo> | oh, have to leave. bye |
20:20:15 | <hondzik> | yeah, lot of requests too |
20:20:22 | <stunti> | bye |
20:20:22 | <hondzik> | bye |
20:20:25 | <-- yoyo has quit () |
20:20:43 | <hondzik> | so who will take the core? |
20:20:47 | <k-fish> | regarding translations: i will (hopefully this week) get a danish translation. |
20:21:05 | <stunti> | not really the easiest |
20:21:07 | <k-fish> | hmmm. the core. did you read the summary of the last IRC session? |
20:21:20 | <hondzik> | great, I'm trying to push my friend to polish translation |
20:21:25 | <hondzik> | yes, i read it |
20:21:25 | <k-fish> | we had some good ideas there. and (sort of) a plan on how to proceed. |
20:21:41 | <k-fish> | (involving newb and me....) |
20:22:04 | <hondzik> | here is a major question: what will we do with 2 cvs trees? |
20:22:14 | <k-fish> | but core changes should be done when CVS future is clear, i think. |
20:22:21 | <k-fish> | :) |
20:22:33 | <k-fish> | then lets talk about that next! |
20:22:51 | <stunti> | I think we must save the current 0.7.x CVS and stop it |
20:22:52 | <hondzik> | and also we must be sure about php version requirements |
20:23:03 | <hondzik> | stunti: i agree |
20:23:07 | <k-fish> | you all know my opinion, i think. dump 0.7 CVS |
20:23:14 | <stunti> | after we go on with the 0.6.x branch |
20:23:28 | <k-fish> | clear up, fix bugs, make it as secure as possible... |
20:23:42 | <hondzik> | and bugless :) |
20:23:53 | <k-fish> | and when time has come s/$HTTP_*_VARS/$_* |
20:24:07 | <k-fish> | (but this is a minor issue) |
20:24:36 | <hondzik> | ok, so we will continue wuth php 4.0.6 compatibility |
20:24:47 | <stunti> | I think yes |
20:25:17 | <k-fish> | yes. use HTTP_*_VARS everywhere. this makes it more secure, and easy to switch to 4.[12].x-only-mode :-) |
20:25:31 | <k-fish> | and still makes it 4.0.6 compatible... |
20:26:22 | <k-fish> | so we all agree? next topic? roadmap? |
20:27:06 | <stunti> | why not having something like mozilla (each month) |
20:27:17 | <hondzik> | I want to discuss few more structural changes... |
20:27:34 | <hondzik> | what do you think about .inc file extension? is it secure? you must asociate it for php to make it secure... |
20:28:06 | <stunti> | maybe with a .htaccess ? |
20:28:08 | <k-fish> | i deny serving of *.inc on my webserver. but then i am lucky, having my own server. |
20:28:42 | <k-fish> | .htaccess is only for Apache. on the other hand, someone who cares about security will not use anythign else :) |
20:28:57 | <stunti> | :) |
20:29:02 | <hondzik> | but somebody can't setup his server... |
20:29:07 | <k-fish> | where are security related things? can't the most inc files be safely given away? |
20:29:33 | <hondzik> | I would prefer to rename it to .php |
20:29:38 | <k-fish> | is it anything aside from config.inc.php (which already has this ending)? |
20:29:45 | <stunti> | .inc.php |
20:29:56 | <hondzik> | yeah inc.php |
20:30:03 | <k-fish> | ok, you got me... let's rename to inc.php |
20:30:11 | <hondzik> | great!!! |
20:30:50 | <hondzik> | and what about template names? [module]_templatename? |
20:31:28 | <hondzik> | just to avoid future problems with same names... |
20:31:42 | <stunti> | yeah |
20:31:51 | <k-fish> | talking about this, can we close all bugs on missing ispublic values? |
20:32:00 | <k-fish> | this was the reason, right? |
20:32:01 | <hondzik> | i hope so |
20:32:35 | <k-fish> | are all templates uniquely named by now, or is this an open task? does somebody know? |
20:32:45 | <hondzik> | is there any naming convention? |
20:33:03 | <stunti> | I dont know anyone |
20:33:08 | <k-fish> | yes, we agreed on one in the last IRC session. |
20:33:19 | <hondzik> | I hope it's unique, but only few modules have modulename_xxx templates |
20:33:24 | <k-fish> | lemme look for it... |
20:34:39 | -->JackShedd (~jack@209.15.194.30) has joined #Moregroupware |
20:34:43 | <stunti> | hi |
20:34:43 | <hondzik> | I can't find it in log... |
20:34:56 | <JackShedd> | weird... |
20:35:05 | <hondzik> | k-fish: i think it was in mail discussion... |
20:35:08 | <k-fish> | hmm cannot either... but i have something on this here, somewhere |
20:35:13 | <hondzik> | hi Jack |
20:35:17 | <JackShedd> | Hello!! |
20:35:42 | <JackShedd> | Wondering what's going on with the 0.7 branch... |
20:35:48 | <k-fish> | i will look for the module name thing. lets go on. |
20:35:57 | <hondzik> | ok |
20:36:15 | <hondzik> | so who will do the renaming? module maintaners? |
20:36:24 | <k-fish> | so, everybody checks 'his' modules temnplate names, after I sent the naming rules to the dev list. agreed? |
20:36:32 | <k-fish> | hondzik: yes |
20:36:33 | <stunti> | Yeah |
20:36:46 | <hondzik> | agree, and .inc.php too |
20:36:50 | <k-fish> | yes |
20:36:57 | <stunti> | yes |
20:36:59 | <hondzik> | ok, lets go on |
20:37:08 | <hondzik> | we forgot on Projects module... |
20:37:14 | <hondzik> | who did it? |
20:37:17 | <k-fish> | hmmm. can do it. |
20:37:20 | <stunti> | loge I think |
20:37:34 | <k-fish> | he is busy at the moment, AFAIK |
20:37:51 | <k-fish> | and he is working on the translator java app, no? |
20:37:53 | <hondzik> | so it's yours :) |
20:38:01 | <k-fish> | damnit ;) |
20:38:10 | <hondzik> | congratulation |
20:38:14 | <k-fish> | ok, roadmap? |
20:38:19 | <hondzik> | yes |
20:38:38 | <k-fish> | i'd release 0.6.4 ASAP. |
20:38:59 | <hondzik> | yes, it's a must |
20:39:05 | <k-fish> | have been a lot of fixes (and changes) that need to be tested *evilgrin* |
20:39:15 | <brr> | Hm. "My" Norwegian bug lives yet in CVS version of MGW 0.6.x |
20:39:23 | <stunti> | Maybe we could plan at 3 or 6 month ? |
20:39:34 | <k-fish> | brr: about contact letters? |
20:40:12 | <brr> | k-fish: Yes. If I press Æ or Ø or Å. |
20:40:33 | <k-fish> | did you read my comment on it? about PHP4.2/Apache2? |
20:40:49 | <k-fish> | what do you think? (officially it is an unstable combo) |
20:40:50 | <brr> | k-fish: Whops. No... |
20:41:02 | <k-fish> | no problem. |
20:41:03 | <JackShedd> | Has anyone used 0.70 as a base for a deployment? |
20:41:16 | <k-fish> | JackShedd: no, it will be dumped. |
20:41:19 | <brr> | k-fish: But it is a strange problem! |
20:41:19 | <hondzik> | jack: I don't |
20:41:43 | <k-fish> | brr: yes. i will look into it, I have an idea for a solution. |
20:41:44 | <brr> | k-fish: If I use Mozilla in stead of IE I do not get the problem. Even with PHP/4.2. |
20:41:52 | <JackShedd> | woah. They're dumping 0.7? |
20:42:19 | <brr> | k-fish: But in Mozilla the login picture is corrupted. I do not get the logo. |
20:42:23 | <k-fish> | JackShedd: it is very similar to 0.6 by now. and doing all the work twice is more than tedious... |
20:42:38 | <JackShedd> | So is 0.6 going OO? |
20:43:02 | <k-fish> | JackShedd: probably, some time. it won't be slower than on 0.7.x i'd say. |
20:43:12 | <k-fish> | brr: logo? on the login screen? |
20:43:17 | <hondzik> | Jack: yes, step by step... |
20:43:30 | <JackShedd> | so...I should abandon all the code I have for 0.7 and write for 0.6? |
20:43:39 | <brr> | k-fish: Below Login - Moregroupware [Release 0.6.3 - Neo] you have little logo. |
20:44:04 | <brr> | k-fish: It looks like a key... This key is missing if I use Mozilla. |
20:44:06 | <JackShedd> | arg. i just rewrote my modules for 0.7...arg arg arg... |
20:44:16 | <k-fish> | ah, the key icon? it works here... i renamed it today, are you using a fresh CVS checkout? |
20:44:17 | <JackShedd> | anyone know who is in charge of the calendar rewrite? |
20:44:31 | <k-fish> | JackShedd: yes, hondzik :) |
20:44:32 | <hondzik> | Jack: me |
20:44:33 | <brr> | k-fish: Yes. Downloaded for about 10 minutes ago. |
20:45:19 | <JackShedd> | hondzik: any hints on where it is headed? |
20:45:22 | <k-fish> | brr: strange... |
20:45:27 | <k-fish> | ok, back to the roadmap? |
20:45:42 | <k-fish> | what are release-critical bugs for 0.6.4 |
20:45:53 | <hondzik> | jack: not yet, it's a 10 minutes old decission |
20:46:03 | <k-fish> | votings, please... |
20:46:23 | <hondzik> | k-fish: modularity (not all modules must be installed) |
20:46:30 | <JackShedd> | ah. I'm sorry if I'm interrupting a dev talk here... |
20:46:59 | <k-fish> | there is some dependency stuff in the new setup xml files... |
20:47:18 | <k-fish> | but is modularity really critical for 0.6.4? |
20:47:44 | <hondzik> | i'm not sure, there is a lot of improvements and bugfixes from 0.6.3 |
20:47:57 | <hondzik> | we must stabilize it and test it now |
20:48:28 | <hondzik> | and probably work on some little feature requests |
20:49:09 | <k-fish> | ok. could we release 0.6.4 sometime next week (towards the end)? and fix some more bugs until then? |
20:49:26 | <k-fish> | and then work on some feature requests for 0.6.5? |
20:49:34 | <k-fish> | (and more gibfixing, of course) |
20:49:46 | <k-fish> | s/gib/bug |
20:50:05 | <k-fish> | maybe we should just set up a (rough) timeline... |
20:50:07 | <hondzik> | I hope so, maybe 27th of may |
20:50:20 | <k-fish> | hondzik: sounds good |
20:50:31 | <stunti> | ok for the 27th |
20:50:42 | <k-fish> | and then 27th of june, july, ... ?!? |
20:50:51 | <stunti> | may |
20:50:53 | <JackShedd> | is there a running list of to-dos one could look at? |
20:51:15 | <hondzik> | jack: buglist :) |
20:51:26 | <k-fish> | JackShedd: I will summarize this session, then there will be. and, yes, buglist |
20:51:35 | <k-fish> | :o) |
20:51:53 | <k-fish> | ok, so 0.6.4 will release on may, 27th. agreed? |
20:51:58 | <hondzik> | we should clean buglist before next release |
20:52:07 | <hondzik> | yes, I agree |
20:52:18 | <k-fish> | completely? wowwowo... or before 0.6.5? |
20:52:28 | <hondzik> | before 0.6.5 |
20:52:35 | <k-fish> | ok. fine with me. |
20:52:55 | <stunti> | for me too |
20:53:19 | <hondzik> | for me too |
20:53:30 | * k-fish looks into the future: what about cleaning bugs and feature requests for 1.0 and then start changing the core? |
20:53:42 | <hondzik> | why not |
20:54:02 | <hondzik> | maybe few new functions before it :) |
20:54:24 | <hondzik> | and maybe better user rights settings |
20:54:37 | <k-fish> | hah! next topic? user right system? |
20:54:47 | <k-fish> | (finished with roadmap?) |
20:54:59 | <k-fish> | (at least for 0.6.x?) |
20:55:24 | <hondzik> | something like unix user/group/others |
20:55:34 | <hondzik> | sure, finished |
20:55:40 | <stunti> | I like it |
20:55:51 | <hondzik> | a lot of work behind us |
20:57:48 | <k-fish> | what is wrong with the current system? it is roughly the same, no? |
20:58:27 | <JackShedd> | settings don't make any sense... |
20:58:37 | <JackShedd> | at least not without some investigation. |
20:58:50 | <brr> | I'm back! A new bug report submitted! |
20:58:51 | <k-fish> | every user/group can have individual right on a module. every user can be in one or more groups. so? |
20:59:33 | <hondzik> | you can't have 2 groups, which can have separate contacts, for example (i think) |
20:59:34 | <k-fish> | brr: assigned to me. :) |
20:59:41 | <k-fish> | hondzik: right. |
20:59:54 | <stunti> | brr:Maybe you could send the vcard |
21:00:14 | <brr> | stunti: Give me your address! |
21:00:32 | <k-fish> | brr: yes, send it to me as well. (appendix: i maintain vcard, if noone objects...) |
21:00:32 | <stunti> | stunti@laposte.net |
21:00:35 | <brr> | stunti: I am using Outlook XP. Just in case that counts! |
21:00:48 | <stunti> | kfish:of course :) |
21:00:58 | <k-fish> | would be interesting to know the vcard version. i support only 2.1 (currently) |
21:01:19 | <stunti> | what about vcal and ical ? |
21:01:22 | <k-fish> | stunti: of course you object? :) |
21:01:45 | <k-fish> | well, i just wanted to make the obvious functionality work again... |
21:01:46 | <brr> | k-fish: And your address is? |
21:02:10 | <k-fish> | karsten@k-fish.de, or k.dambekalns@fishfarm.de. |
21:02:15 | <brr> | I also got problems with deleting the vCard importet contact again. |
21:02:22 | <brr> | I had to log out and log in as admin. |
21:02:32 | <k-fish> | brr: ?!?!? i will look at it. |
21:02:38 | <stunti> | should we wait for the new calendar ? |
21:02:42 | <brr> | It should been possible for the user to delete the own imported contacts. |
21:02:56 | <k-fish> | stunti: should be a small fix... |
21:02:57 | <JackShedd> | is calendar being rewritten from the ground up? or is just being patched? |
21:03:03 | <k-fish> | brr: seems to make sense :-) |
21:03:03 | <hondzik> | off-topic: maybe we should look for some csv parser, I see nice one in phpgroupware. We should use it for a lot of imports... |
21:03:15 | <k-fish> | hondzik: yes. |
21:03:15 | <hondzik> | Jack: probably rewritten |
21:03:35 | <k-fish> | can look at phpmyadmin as well. |
21:03:44 | <JackShedd> | into what form? OO? |
21:03:57 | <k-fish> | rights system again? (lets get things ordered a bit) |
21:04:05 | <JackShedd> | sorry :( |
21:04:14 | <k-fish> | no problem... |
21:04:37 | * k-fish just wants to have it easier when writing the summary |
21:04:43 | <hondzik> | :) |
21:05:01 | <JackShedd> | wouldn't it make more sense for an intranet to use an ACL instead of UNIX perms? |
21:05:45 | <brr> | Ok. I know you are tired of my fuss. But just one little thing before I take a break. Do you now if this sentence from the webmail module is hardcoded: Failed to connect to POP server on port . |
21:05:48 | <hondzik> | jack: I found it more difficult to implement |
21:06:01 | <JackShedd> | but it would be easier to use... |
21:06:56 | <JackShedd> | While the database behind it would certainley be more complicated, you could do a great deal more with an ACL... |
21:07:13 | <k-fish> | brr: yes, hardcoded |
21:07:36 | <k-fish> | i once wrote a (IMHO) nice rights system, I can send the files to the list. |
21:07:46 | <JackShedd> | I may still have some of my old code from when I did it for PN...might be of use... |
21:07:47 | <k-fish> | maybe it can be a base |
21:07:54 | <k-fish> | PN? |
21:07:59 | <JackShedd> | PostNuke |
21:08:03 | <k-fish> | ah. |
21:08:18 | <JackShedd> | A bit more complicated then what MGW would need, but, the model could probably be adopted. |
21:08:20 | --- brr is now known as brr_away |
21:08:25 | --- Notify: brr is offline (card.openprojects.net). |
21:09:02 | <k-fish> | but: do we need it? what exactly is missing from the current system? |
21:09:09 | <k-fish> | arguments, please :) |
21:09:26 | <JackShedd> | I find the current system WAY too difficult. |
21:09:33 | <hondzik> | cooperation of more independent groups on one installation of mgw |
21:09:35 | <JackShedd> | I couldn't explain it too one of my users if I tried. |
21:11:03 | <k-fish> | ok. what would you like to have (just a rough sketch, so we can agree on a direction) |
21:11:50 | <hondzik> | i think it will be enough for us to have for each record rights for user/group/others |
21:12:08 | <k-fish> | and user/group ownership |
21:12:16 | <hondzik> | yes |
21:12:38 | <k-fish> | but then you could not give two groups read right, for example... |
21:12:47 | <hondzik> | we can handle private records with this as well |
21:13:14 | <hondzik> | but you can give it read permission for 'others' |
21:13:37 | <k-fish> | yes, but then the members of the third group can read it as well... |
21:14:18 | <hondzik> | k-fish: damned, you're right... |
21:14:29 | <k-fish> | what about a poll on sf.net? what would you like? ACL? unix rights? current scheme? |
21:14:43 | <k-fish> | at last the users have to use it... |
21:14:45 | <hondzik> | why not |
21:15:25 | <k-fish> | wo writes up the questions? |
21:15:48 | <hondzik> | k-fish: sorry? |
21:16:40 | <k-fish> | for the poll... |
21:16:56 | <k-fish> | let's compile them quickly. |
21:17:02 | <k-fish> | 1. current system |
21:17:08 | <k-fish> | 2. full-blown ACL |
21:17:14 | <k-fish> | 3. unix rights system |
21:17:18 | <k-fish> | more? |
21:17:34 | <hondzik> | i think it's enough |
21:17:46 | <k-fish> | ok, i will set up the poll on sf.net |
21:18:09 | <k-fish> | and then we will wait for the results, and discuss again later. |
21:18:23 | <hondzik> | ok |
21:18:30 | <k-fish> | you all agree? JackShedd? |
21:18:47 | <stunti> | kfish: yes |
21:18:54 | <hondzik> | yes |
21:19:15 | <k-fish> | ok, next topic. contextual help system? |
21:19:23 | <hondzik> | yes |
21:19:28 | <k-fish> | (following your list, hondzik) |
21:19:50 | <stunti> | Is there any editor for the dita xml file ? |
21:19:50 | <k-fish> | ok, i wrote this little example. did everyone see the output? |
21:20:21 | <k-fish> | stunti: any xml editor will do. i tried Komodo, nice but expensive :( |
21:20:32 | <stunti> | kfish not me :( |
21:20:42 | <k-fish> | it is at http://www.k-fish.de/krabutzig/mgw/mgw-module-notes.html |
21:21:01 | <k-fish> | this would be what the user sees after clicking the help submenu item. |
21:21:31 | <k-fish> | i have a way of integrating it, needs to be refined a little, but should be quickly done. |
21:22:15 | <k-fish> | do you have any special wishes on how to integrate help into MGW? |
21:22:42 | <stunti> | kfish : not really |
21:22:45 | <hondzik> | is there any way to localize it? I mean something like to look for file help.cs.html for czech people and if it doesn't exist, use english one... |
21:23:18 | <k-fish> | hondzik: yes. if the translators do their work ;) |
21:23:52 | <hondzik> | yes |
21:23:55 | <stunti> | I think this is a lot of work , but needed work |
21:24:02 | <k-fish> | does anyone _really_ object to using DITA for the documentation? |
21:24:06 | <k-fish> | stunti: true... |
21:24:21 | <k-fish> | i can try to put up a list of xml editors... |
21:24:32 | <hondzik> | there should be a way, how to refer to #submenu_name in the file |
21:24:35 | <k-fish> | ... that work with DITA (well enough) |
21:24:49 | <stunti> | kfish : ok |
21:24:49 | <k-fish> | hondzik: ? |
21:25:25 | <k-fish> | hondzik: ah, i think you understand... |
21:25:33 | <hondzik> | I mean if you are in calendar day view, the link should be /??/??/help.html#day_view |
21:25:52 | <k-fish> | yes. should be possible. |
21:25:56 | <hondzik> | great |
21:26:22 | <k-fish> | will have to check DITA on how to generate named anchors in it's output, but i guess it can do. |
21:26:33 | <k-fish> | anything else on help? |
21:26:46 | <hondzik> | no |
21:27:09 | <k-fish> | ok, so i will commit help stuff somewhen after 0.6.4 is out... and thenwe will see. |
21:27:21 | <k-fish> | next topic. xml for db structure? |
21:27:41 | <k-fish> | or does this not make sense wothout loge? |
21:29:08 | <hondzik> | I like the XML idea and if we already have xml parser ... |
21:30:05 | <hondzik> | but if we will use XML db definitions, we must rewrite setup :( |
21:30:06 | <k-fish> | yes, but do we have a way to create the database from the xml? |
21:30:36 | <k-fish> | if we want to go that way, we might use metabase (if only for db setup) |
21:30:50 | <k-fish> | or look at turbine, if something for creating db from xml exists. |
21:30:51 | <hondzik> | I'm not sure, but I think I read something about it on AdoDB homepage |
21:31:17 | <k-fish> | if adodb would support this, we would be set. could it be that simple? |
21:32:44 | <hondzik> | well, it's in Ado roadmap, but they want to implement MSSQL DTD :( |
21:33:59 | <k-fish> | is it impossible to write SQL compatible with at least some important db? mysql for example understands foreign key(), so we could add this to take advanbtage from it on pgsql. |
21:34:09 | <k-fish> | and dump type=myisam, to make pgsql happy. |
21:34:22 | <k-fish> | and so on. wouldn't it be worth a try? |
21:34:43 | <k-fish> | before we start something all-new (we have enough work, don't we?) |
21:34:46 | <hondzik> | sure, we must try to be DB independent |
21:35:32 | <stunti> | sure |
21:35:32 | <hondzik> | I tried it with concat and it's most recent bug in buglist :) |
21:36:24 | <k-fish> | hondzik: adodb allows to have concat adapted automagically... |
21:36:33 | <hondzik> | sorry, my english is bad today, recent=often |
21:36:56 | <k-fish> | it is in use already, some pieces of code need to be updated still, that's true. |
21:37:42 | <hondzik> | there is also something with LIMIT what can be done with ADO function |
21:38:07 | <k-fish> | so, will we try it this way first? |
21:38:14 | <hondzik> | yes |
21:39:02 | <k-fish> | same as with the template names: everyone checks his 'own' modules first (concat, limit, ...)? |
21:39:10 | <k-fish> | all agree? |
21:39:19 | <hondzik> | k-fish: yes |
21:39:44 | <k-fish> | stunti: still with us? |
21:39:48 | <hondzik> | and also check if arrays are quoted |
21:41:14 | <k-fish> | yes. did that for 0.7 in a lot of files... well, well... |
21:41:20 | <k-fish> | :) |
21:41:30 | <hondzik> | yes, me with 0.6 :) |
21:41:37 | <k-fish> | next topic? XML for changelog? |
21:41:43 | <k-fish> | I AM AGAINST IT! |
21:41:53 | <k-fish> | sorry for shouting, but did you ever use emacs? |
21:42:02 | <k-fish> | C-x 4 a and you are set |
21:42:09 | <k-fish> | wonderful... |
21:42:12 | <hondzik> | ok |
21:42:32 | <k-fish> | no offense, but it is really nice to have this functionality. |
21:42:33 | <hondzik> | well, I thied it with XML for a while and I agree. too complcated sollution for changelog :) |
21:42:49 | <stunti> | I am back |
21:43:19 | <k-fish> | it might be nice to be able to rip all 'imprtant' changes from the changelog automatically when using xml, but it is not worth it, i'd say. |
21:43:39 | <hondzik> | I agree |
21:44:18 | <k-fish> | ok. but maybe more developers should write to the changelog, don't you thin? |
21:44:20 | <stunti> | (I read last post) for me too |
21:44:56 | <hondzik> | everybody should write his changes, and maybe also number of fixed bug |
21:45:28 | <stunti> | why not having a changelog in each module and concat tham when realesed a new version of MGW |
21:45:34 | <k-fish> | number of fixed bugs could be seen on sf.net. but definitely the bug number would be good. |
21:45:56 | <k-fish> | stunti: would make the modules more independent. why not... |
21:46:08 | <hondzik> | stuni: I agree |
21:46:30 | <k-fish> | what about changes to settings and general when they are caused by work on a module? |
21:46:42 | <k-fish> | both (global/module) changelogs? |
21:47:25 | <k-fish> | hmmm... what about the date order? it would be lost when concatenating the logs... |
21:47:42 | <stunti> | each developper who maid a modification modify the changelog of setting and general |
21:47:58 | <hondzik> | k-fish: hm, so back to one general changelog... |
21:47:58 | <k-fish> | stunti: simple. |
21:48:04 | * k-fish is slapping his head again... |
21:48:13 | <stunti> | ok |
21:48:20 | <stunti> | just an idea :) |
21:48:40 | <hondzik> | it looked great |
21:48:53 | <k-fish> | one changelog? looks more impressive anyway :) |
21:49:01 | <stunti> | :à |
21:49:04 | <stunti> | :) |
21:49:17 | <JackShedd> | shouldn't there be a centralized method of versioning/changes? |
21:49:22 | <JackShedd> | similar to YaBB? |
21:49:35 | <k-fish> | JackShedd: never heard of that. can you explain a little? |
21:50:21 | <JackShedd> | YaBB uses XML-RPC to manage it's changelog, and versioning.... |
21:50:37 | <JackShedd> | Their developer site hosts a central database of modules/developers |
21:50:50 | <JackShedd> | with attached bugs, feature reqs. etc... |
21:51:06 | <JackShedd> | Updates are done via a nifty archiving/intsall method. |
21:51:14 | <JackShedd> | It's very well thought out...very cool... |
21:51:20 | <JackShedd> | alot of code though... |
21:51:25 | <k-fish> | sounds complex. |
21:51:32 | <JackShedd> | it is :) |
21:51:39 | <hondzik> | very complex... |
21:51:40 | <JackShedd> | could be simpler though. |
21:51:48 | <k-fish> | for now i'd stick to CVS, ChangeLog and sf.net... |
21:51:56 | <hondzik> | me too |
21:52:03 | <JackShedd> | just an idea. |
21:52:04 | <JackShedd> | :) |
21:52:19 | <k-fish> | maybe later, is this system available somewhere? |
21:52:44 | <k-fish> | (might be cool to look at anyway) |
21:52:48 | <JackShedd> | have to find it... |
21:52:56 | <JackShedd> | been a few months since I explored it. |
21:53:16 | <k-fish> | JackShedd: ok, you can send a link to the list when you found it... |
21:53:52 | <JackShedd> | sure. what's your e-mail address? |
21:53:59 | <k-fish> | next on the list: minimal system requirements... |
21:54:15 | <k-fish> | (karsten@k-fish.de or k.dambekalns@fishfarm.de) |
21:54:32 | <hondzik> | already discussed: php 4.0.6 (minimal for smarty 2.x) |
21:54:46 | <k-fish> | we talked a little already. php 4.0.6. |
21:54:56 | <k-fish> | do we still need pear? i guess not, right? |
21:55:17 | <hondzik> | right, great!!! |
21:55:22 | <JackShedd> | what are you guys doing for DB abstraction? |
21:55:29 | <k-fish> | adodb |
21:55:34 | <JackShedd> | ah. |
21:55:38 | <hondzik> | it was only needed for smarty error reporting |
21:55:53 | <JackShedd> | and that's being removed? |
21:55:59 | <hondzik> | yes |
21:56:11 | <JackShedd> | righto. |
21:56:29 | <hondzik> | there were a lot of pear related errors |
21:56:48 | <k-fish> | what about modules? like the calendaring stuff (hondzik, you remember? :) |
21:56:55 | <k-fish> | as less a possible? |
21:57:13 | <k-fish> | there is one special case: IMAP |
21:57:20 | <hondzik> | AdoDB 2.0 needs PHP4.01pl2 or later |
21:57:40 | <k-fish> | hondzik: you mean 4.1....? |
21:57:45 | <JackShedd> | why is imap a special case? |
21:57:49 | <hondzik> | I'm afraid of IMAP (because I know nothing about it) |
21:58:06 | <hondzik> | k-fish: no, 4.01 :) |
21:58:24 | <k-fish> | well, no problem 4.0.6 > 4.0.1. no? |
21:58:37 | * k-fish is irritated |
21:58:41 | <hondzik> | k-fish: you are right |
21:58:48 | <k-fish> | :) ok, on IMAP. |
21:59:04 | <k-fish> | Loge wanted MGW to be completely independent of non-standard extensions. |
21:59:23 | <k-fish> | IMAP has to be enabled when installing PHP, so he wanted to have a PHP-only IMAP solution |
21:59:55 | <k-fish> | I'd say this add more error-potential than needed. if one wantes IMAP, can't we expect him to have the IMAP extension comoiled? |
21:59:58 | <hondzik> | I agree with him in this |
22:00:07 | <JackShedd> | seems like alot of work...especially when the library is already there.... |
22:00:22 | <k-fish> | or, the other way round: you want IMAP? Then compile it. |
22:00:34 | <k-fish> | and i think most providers compile it in ,no? |
22:00:50 | <hondzik> | k-fish: i don't need it, so I don't want it :) |
22:01:02 | <k-fish> | no problem then. |
22:01:24 | <k-fish> | you would only need IMAP extension if you wanted to use IMAP. |
22:02:39 | <k-fish> | ok, next topic? |
22:02:45 | <hondzik> | yes |
22:02:47 | <stunti> | yes |
22:02:52 | <k-fish> | new mdoules, we talked about this earlier. |
22:02:54 | <JackShedd> | couldn't the mail module just detect the imap extenstions and enable or disable the options? |
22:03:02 | <k-fish> | JackShedd: probably |
22:03:09 | <JackShedd> | Seems like best way to do it. |
22:03:25 | <JackShedd> | Who in the world would want to write IMAP from scratch>? |
22:03:26 | <k-fish> | ok, modules, webmail first: i will mail emailtotom and ask about his progress. |
22:03:42 | <k-fish> | JackShedd: _I_ don't... ;o) |
22:04:02 | <k-fish> | notes: i will backport for 0.6.5 |
22:04:03 | <hondzik> | jack: never thought about writing it :) |
22:04:25 | <k-fish> | tts: stunti will look at it, probably for 0.6.5 or 0.6.6? |
22:04:37 | <stunti> | normaly 0.6.5 |
22:04:43 | <stunti> | i ll try to :) |
22:04:56 | <k-fish> | filemanager: we should check thomas' sanchez stuff. seems to work well. |
22:05:16 | <hondzik> | and what about phonemsg? |
22:05:22 | <k-fish> | who did that? |
22:05:35 | <hondzik> | Steen Rabol |
22:05:56 | <JackShedd> | was anyone interested in my outboard module? |
22:06:14 | <JackShedd> | wasn't sure if it was needed, or if I should convert to 0.6 |
22:06:20 | <k-fish> | JackShedd: yes, as i replied to the list... |
22:06:31 | <hondzik> | Jack: yes |
22:06:34 | <k-fish> | i would like to see it in MGW. |
22:07:03 | <k-fish> | so, will you backport it again? |
22:07:05 | <JackShedd> | coolio. I'll convert to 0.6 tommorow |
22:07:12 | <k-fish> | :) |
22:07:13 | <hondzik> | great |
22:07:19 | <JackShedd> | I think I still have the original 0.6 base lying around... |
22:07:21 | <k-fish> | do you have a sf.net account? |
22:07:34 | <JackShedd> | yeah.,..I think... |
22:07:36 | <JackShedd> | jackshedd |
22:07:46 | <k-fish> | hondzik: shall we let him in? |
22:07:46 | <JackShedd> | haven't used in awhile... |
22:07:58 | * k-fish forgot the :) |
22:08:11 | <hondzik> | i think we can |
22:08:18 | <k-fish> | ok, will do. |
22:08:30 | <hondzik> | ok |
22:08:42 | <k-fish> | while we are at it, what about gary marshall? he provided quite some holidays stuff... |
22:09:12 | <k-fish> | his patches were good, if he wants to join in... |
22:09:21 | <hondzik> | it was not bad, we can give him some write access if he wants |
22:09:32 | <JackShedd> | if someone can just hand me a list of to-dos, I'll start cracking... |
22:09:36 | <JackShedd> | :) |
22:10:08 | <k-fish> | ok. lemme look at my papers here... |
22:10:36 | <k-fish> | only one thing left: PDA sync |
22:10:46 | <k-fish> | hondzik: you talked to yoyo about this? |
22:10:56 | <JackShedd> | how can that be done? |
22:11:20 | <k-fish> | there are some options. |
22:11:35 | <JackShedd> | such as? ( clueless and interested ) |
22:11:45 | <k-fish> | i have been in touch with yoyo for a while now, and we have some possible ways worked out. |
22:11:51 | <hondzik> | yes, I told him that my coleague did calendar and todos sync for coldsync in perl, but it's not bugless and he is in thailand now |
22:12:23 | <hondzik> | but I hope he will be back in next few days |
22:12:32 | <JackShedd> | It's quite easy to do with OS X...but that's OS X. |
22:12:44 | <JackShedd> | God love AppleScript :) |
22:12:51 | <k-fish> | yoyo came up with this: |
22:13:08 | <k-fish> | 1. coldsync conduit (one way mgw->palm) |
22:13:19 | <k-fish> | 2. refine it to do moregroupware <->palm |
22:13:43 | <k-fish> | 3. use java (jsync) to further improve this (mgw->palm) |
22:13:59 | <k-fish> | 4. refine this one to do 2way mgw<->palm |
22:14:17 | <k-fish> | then maybe do it over the net suing SOAP... |
22:14:44 | <hondzik> | or better XML-RPC (w3c standard) |
22:14:48 | <k-fish> | this has advantages and drawbacks, obviously, which i have in his mail |
22:14:58 | <JackShedd> | why not just go net/soap in the first place? |
22:15:04 | <k-fish> | right. SOAP and XML-RPC are very similar anyway. |
22:15:30 | <k-fish> | JackShedd: might work, but yoyo needs something for his local needs _fast_ |
22:15:39 | <JackShedd> | ah. |
22:15:49 | <k-fish> | but probably whatever is done can be used alter on. |
22:15:55 | <k-fish> | s/alter/later |
22:16:39 | <k-fish> | but: doing this will only make sense if contacts internals are stable. so does anyone want to have something in the contacts db that isn't yet? |
22:17:35 | <k-fish> | (anyway, yoyo is having some developer who just waits for the budget :) |
22:18:08 | <JackShedd> | wait...coldsync is *NIX only? |
22:18:37 | <k-fish> | JackShedd: yes. that's why java came in to play... |
22:18:49 | <JackShedd> | ah. gotcha... |
22:19:21 | <k-fish> | jsync seems to be something from sun or palm, don't know for sure. |
22:19:55 | <JackShedd> | does anyone run MGW w/o MySql? |
22:20:04 | <hondzik> | no |
22:20:07 | <stunti> | no |
22:20:25 | <JackShedd> | does MySQL have C libraries for access? |
22:20:47 | <k-fish> | JackShedd: yes. |
22:20:56 | <stunti> | yes (this is used in the php extension :) ) |
22:21:11 | <k-fish> | JackShedd: for syncing to a palm? |
22:21:24 | <JackShedd> | then, in theory, it should be possible to write a standard Palm conduit? |
22:21:56 | <hondzik> | yes, but you must compile it for all platforms :( |
22:22:00 | <k-fish> | but you would have to allow outside connections to your database. _i_ wont. |
22:22:14 | <JackShedd> | what if it were server centralized? |
22:22:21 | <k-fish> | on jsync: it is java for win only, c++ for mac. no unix. |
22:22:57 | <k-fish> | JackShedd: how would you do that? have each palm user walk by the server? works, but should be solved better... |
22:23:04 | <JackShedd> | No...\ |
22:23:10 | <JackShedd> | have a server conduit... |
22:23:15 | <JackShedd> | and a client conduit/ |
22:23:23 | <JackShedd> | No outside database connection required. |
22:23:37 | <JackShedd> | This is how OfficeTracker is going to handle it's next release, and it works quite well./ |
22:23:57 | <JackShedd> | course...again...alot of work... |
22:24:11 | <JackShedd> | but I'm not seeing any option for palm syncing which isn't. |
22:24:27 | <k-fish> | that is the plan (roughly). best might be to use syncml over http right from the start. but then again, no conduits available... |
22:24:41 | <k-fish> | JackShedd: sadly, yes ;/ |
22:26:42 | <JackShedd> | if only all platforms had AppleScript...simple stuff... |
22:26:44 | <JackShedd> | :( |
22:27:07 | <k-fish> | 0 matches when searching for syncml on palmos.com. tststs... |
22:27:36 | <hondzik> | maybe later with palmos5 :( |
22:28:06 | <k-fish> | but what about my good ol' IBM WorkPad? |
22:28:25 | <hondzik> | and my Palm Vx? |
22:28:40 | <k-fish> | ok. anything constructive left in all our heads? |
22:28:50 | <hondzik> | not in mine... |
22:28:54 | <stunti> | no |